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#1
September 29th, 2004, 06:08 PM
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Finding entry level programming positions
I just graduated valedvictorian of my class and Im finding out what a roadblock it is as a programmer when you have no experience in the workplace. What is the best way to get into a programming position or gain experience? Ive gotten offers for help desks and such but I feel like I need something a little more challenging. Should i bite the bullet for awhile and do that, or should I hang on for something that involves some coding? I guess I just want some personal advice form professionals in the industry.
Thanks for your time J.S.
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#2
September 29th, 2004, 07:14 PM
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Get you foot in the door first, then demonstrate what you can do.
My first job was as a web designer, but after being there a couple of months, I volunteered to do some extra work designing databases and creating a custom small business application. Eventually, the web design fell by the wayside and I was doing full-time programming on the business application. Note: I eventually left, because he wouldn't give me a raise. He still wanted to pay me the "Web Designer" salary, while I was writting custom software. The experience I gained doing that, helped me land my next job. Now, 2 years and 3 jobs later, I am a .NET developer for a large company that designs banking software. My job consists of creating custom controls and web based applications that the company uses in its everyday operations. I also teach a .NET programming course at a local community college, which keeps me on my toes as well. Couple of pieces of advice: 1) If you are required to sign any type of employment contract, have an attorney review it before you sign it. 2) Stay on top of the latest technologies, such as .NET, XML, database programming, etc... These technologies are where the future is headed, the stronger you are in these areas, the better chance you have of landing a job. Also, have a wide variety of skills, not just one or two. 3) Have sample work. Most companies when interviewing applicants for programming positions, ask for sample work. There are several reasons for this, they check your coding style, do you comment your code?, is your code optimized for performance?, etc... So make sure you have some sample work available, and keep it up to date Quote:
4) IT/Programming interviews can be grueling (Mine lasted 4 hours). They will ask alot of technical questions, be prepared. Also, if you don't know an answer or aren't familiar with a certain technology, tell them the truth. You'll look a lot worse if you try to BS your way through an interview. Trust me, I have interviewed many people and the ones who try to bs me with an answer, don't get hired. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Good luck with your search.
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#3
September 29th, 2004, 07:38 PM
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Nowt wrong with help desks. Software support is a great grounding for any IT professional - programmers included. Learning about the customer's experience "face to face" only makes you a better developer in the long run
__________________
selwonk If I've posted some code above, you might think it looks a bit simplistic. It might be. I'd rather people tried the next step themselves rather than getting a full solution on a plate. That way they learn more!
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#4
September 30th, 2004, 11:02 AM
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now that I think about it:
I guess being in the help desk for awhile would teach you more about error handling and what part of most programs to expect the problems from. That makes sense. Im going to search for awhile longer before I do that though. Also thanks for the advice memnoch, I do have example work, I think Ill spend some time tidying it up.
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#5
March 4th, 2005, 10:26 AM
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finding work in VB/ASP
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I have a guy who works for me programming in ASP who will move thru the ranks and coming from a support side of the business will make an excellent developer when his VB/SQL skills are strong enough. PS anyone in the North West looking for a VB/SQL server developer role? I'm looking for a new recruit ... salary is not brilliant, but the company is growing fast and the environment is great.
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#6
March 10th, 2005, 07:41 AM
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What a great post!
I live in London and I'm trying to get into a development role. I can mirror everything that has been said about getting into an entry level position. I lived in Manchester 8 years ago and couldn't get a junior programmers job. I wanted to be involved in IT and because of this I went into training and then to support. I've been doing support for 7 years and I'm in working in one of the top 20 companies in England but I cannot move up, down or sideways. I am so so frustrated. 18 months ago I decided enough was enough and that I'm now going to attempt to get into programming again or some sort of work that involved coding and a little more demanding than CAT5 cabling, etc, etc, etc, ... This company has ruined my career!!! I was learning UNIX at one point before we merged. Big companies are not the way forward unless you have the skills already. Go for a small company where they will train you and the manager is interested will look after you. My advice to anyone that does support or alike and wants to really get into programming is not to stop trying even if it's going well, as it was for me, in their current non related job. I regret stopping trying now and it was because I was naive. Maybe I still am. Let's hope it's not too late!
 I've just started looking at positions and posting my CV out there as my skills are reaching a comfortable level. I'm very very junior but I know now what to expect and I can talk about my site and experiences. It's still as difficult as it was 7 years ago by the seems of it and again, my skills aren't quite there as yet. Fantastic advice from Memnoch about brushing up on skills and having a wide variety of skills. I'm in the process of learning ASP.NET and I know a little ASP, VB6 and HTML\XML. The trick is knowing when to move onto another language and how to keep using and improve on the current skills one has. This is exceptionally difficult when the job I do isn't connected in anyway. I've looked on the Internet for computer clubs (as geeky as that might sound) but I can't find any in London. I just want to code and be creative. I've developed a website in ASP which works fine (www.DynamoKebab.co.uk). It could be better but I want to widen my skill areas so that I am employable. I'm going to attempt to improve the site, or maybe start another one, using ASP.NET. It still feels like a mountain to climb. If anyone has any advice or would like to start some sort of project with me in order to learn new skills, please let me know. I have the determination to learn and produce and if anyone else has have then lets have a go. I'm not a geek, but I want to be!!!!!  Good luck to all of you trying and if you have youth on your side USE IT!!!!!
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#7
March 11th, 2005, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
I felt the same way. I spent the better part of a year looking for a entry job in IT. I had a degree in programming, went back got a Cisco certification and finally ended up getting a job because I knew someone in a company where they needed another IT person. I work for a smaller company around 60-70 employees. The IT department consists of me and my boss. When I started I was setting up new workstations, fielding support questions from users, soon after I got tasked to learn .NET and program them some ASP.NET solutions, I've also been given the responsibility of working with the Macromedia suite to keep their website updated with content. So who knows what the Help Desk position can open up for you. It sure isn't the 90's anymore! Sometimes you got to grind it out, it's what most people do in all fields of work. I think some people are still clinging to the idea that well I got a computer science degree, now give me great job, and tons of money. It's not like that at all anymore. The IT world is as normal as any other job market, so my suggestion is, "a job is better than no job."
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#8
March 19th, 2005, 01:16 PM
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would like to join you!
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hey i got interested in your post , i too would like to join you to make a new project in .net. i am okay with ASP, and currently learning PHP. Will also learn .net packages. and would also like to know how is ASP different from ASP.net ?? and whats the differences between VB.net, C#,J2EE etc??
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#9
March 21st, 2005, 01:08 AM
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Just thought I'd take a stab at the definitions you asked for.
ASP is a scriptin language which runs on the server to manipulate the appearance of a web page before it is rendered and communicate with other server side components (such as a database) ASP.NET is similar in its usage, but is done in a completely different way. ASP.NET uses partially compiled server side code (dlls) along with HTML style tags. Unlike ASP, it is not limited to a single language, but can be written in any number of languages two of which are vb.net and c#. The source code, no matter what language it is written in is translated into Common Language Runtime (CLR) so the framework doesn't need to know anything about the language it was written in. J2EE is a Java platform created by Sun Microsystems. For this discussion it is similar to the "Dot Net Framework" which must be installed on a computer in order for it to run programs written in vb.net or c#. In order to run a program written in Java, the J2 platform must be installed (EE stands for Enterprise Edition J2SE is the "Standard Edition") Side note -- the most recent release of Java is known as Java 5.0 even though it is only an upgrade of Java 1.4 and should be called Java 1.5. This is also how they got the "2" in J2EE and J2SE -- this terminology was invented when they upgraded to Java 1.2. So now we have Java 2 version 5.0 which is actually Java 1.5. And we thought Microsoft was bad with names!
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#10
March 21st, 2005, 07:36 AM
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J2EE or .NET??
Thanks for that post, now 1 more question.. if you were given a chance to develop a Web App using .net or J2EEorSE which one would you chose? and please tell me why?? coz i have herd JAVA is a bit resource hungry is it true?? and can any one advise or rather predict which technology ie J2EE or .net technology will lead the market coz students of technology like myself can concentrate more on such technology.
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#11
March 21st, 2005, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
ASP can be written in JavaScript as well.
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#12
March 21st, 2005, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
yep - the scripting language is called "JScript" and has the same syntax as the client side JavaScript. As far as i know, you can also write ASP using PerlScript language... three different languages available for developers to write ASP is enough in my opinion.
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#13
April 21st, 2005, 12:14 PM
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